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pests 8 hours ago

> That junior engineer possibly hasn't programmed without the tantalizing, even desperately tempting option to be assisted by an LLM.

Years ago I had to spend many months building nothing but Models (as in MVC) for a huge data import / ingest the company I worked on was rewriting. It was just messy enough that it couldn't be automated. I almost lost my mind from the dull monotony and started even having attendance issues. I know today that could have been done with an LLM in minutes. Almost crazy how much time I put into that project compared to if I did it today.

aatd86 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The issue is that it might look good but an LLM often inserts weird mistakes. Or ellipses. Or overindex on the training data. If someone is not careful it is easy to completely wreck the codebase by piling on seemingly innocuous commits. So far I have developed a good sense for when I need to push the llm to avoid sloppy code. It is all in the details.

But a junior engineer would never find/anticipate those issues.

I am a bit concerned. Because the kind of software I am making, a llm would never prompt on its own. A junior cannot make it, it requires research and programming experience that they do not have. But I know that if I were a junior today, I would probably try to use llms as much as possible and would probably know less programming over time.

So it seems to me that we are likely to have worse software over time. Perhaps a boon for senior engineers but how do we train junior devs in that environment? Force them to build slowly, without llms? Is it aligned with business incentives?

Do we create APIs expecting the code to be generated by LLMs or written by hand? Because the impact of verbosity is not necessarily the same. LLMs don't get tired as fast as humans.

AlexCoventry 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> So it seems to me that we are likely to have worse software over time.

IMO, it's already happening. I had to change some personal information on a bunch of online services recently, and two out of seven of them were down. One of them is still down, a week later. This is the website of a major utilities company. When I call them, they acknowledge that it's down, but say my timing is just bad. That combined with all the recent outages has left me with the impression that software has been getting (even more) unreliable, recently.

agentultra 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They are trained on code people had to make sacrifices for: deadlines, shortcuts, etc. And code people were simply too ignorant to be writing in the first place. Lots of code with hardly any coding standards.

So of course it’s going to generate code that has non-obvious bugs in it.

Ever play the Undefined Behaviour Game? Humans are bad at being compilers and catching mistakes.

I’d hoped… maybe still do, that the future of programming isn’t a shrug and, “good enough.” I hope we’ll keep developing languages and tools that let us better specify programs and optimize them.

3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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