| ▲ | We're committing $6.25B to give 25M children a financial head start(onedell.com) |
| 42 points by duck an hour ago | 65 comments |
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| ▲ | frellus a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] |
| What kids really need is mandatory personal finance classes in High School, which would teach them how to handle money, debt, spending, budgeting and general financial health. Nothing would help the next generation more, even above giving them seed investment money, than helping them avoid the pitfalls which are just waiting for them around every corner. |
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| ▲ | piker 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is badass. My first intuition was that he was just throwing money away. Imagine getting $250 at some arbitrarily young age! But it looks like it's going into something like a 529 plan. That'll be great for these kids come 18 years from now. But an even more important idea here is going from zero to one investment accounts. That will have a profound impact on the financial literacy and lifelong savings behavior of many of these kids. This move isn't going to win him any steak dinners or awards bestowed by people running power organizations. Instead, his charity is diffused across millions of children who will be too young to ever vote him into any office. Many of them won't ever even know who he was. |
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| ▲ | rossdavidh 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| When my daughter wanted her first tablet, a friend of mine said he had an old one he could sell me for $50. Cool, I said, and my daughter saved up her allowance (paid for feeding the cats, as I recall) to get the money. Then, my friend said to just put the $50 in her savings account. Oh, I said, right, we should set one of those up for her. Once she had one, it was clear I should be adding to it every month. But, the initial nudge to get her one was important. Hopefully, having an account will make it more likely to put a little in every month? It's not everything, but it's also not nothing. Of course, cheaper housing would help the kids more, but that has more entrenched interests opposed to it (almost every homeowner), and not even Dell has enough to overcome that. |
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| ▲ | decisionsmatter 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Selfless move. Have a lot of respect for the Dell philanthropy arm for doing this, will surely benefit a bunch of kids down the road even if they are more financially literate |
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| ▲ | OGEnthusiast 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| $250 seems way too small to make a tangible difference, but I suppose it's better than nothing. |
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| ▲ | yandie 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| $250 per child, at 5% interest rate, compounded in 18 years, you'd get $601.65. Even in today's money, I wouldn't call it a "head start" |
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| ▲ | Retric 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s a head start in that it removes a single minor issue, shows the value of compound interest in a more tangible way, or possibly gets them to retirement a noticeably earlier. Imagine an otherwise identical life without 600 dollars of credit card debt, that’s a worth quite a bit over time. | |
| ▲ | najarvg 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you add in the 1000$ that treasury plans to invest starting next year, that is $1250 compounded at 5% annually after 18 years to $3008.27. It's probably still not a "head start" given that inflation is assumed to nominally rise at 2.5 to 3.5% annually and will take a bite out of what the real value is worth in 18 years. Good intentions but misplaced as others have stated. Investing in other ways to provide upward economic mobility will provide much better ROI for the society than allowing most of the wealth to accrue to a handful of people | |
| ▲ | piker 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Trivial for a lot of people, sure, but imagine the difference between not knowing what an investment account is and knowing that you've got $250 in one that you can contribute more to. | | |
| ▲ | codeddesign 26 minutes ago | parent [-] | | So..a 401k
At least the 401k is pre-tax. This on the other hand is taxed on both ends. Maybe I am missing something, but I really don’t see the upside. | | |
| ▲ | dmoy 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It's more like a 529, but can also be used for first home purchase as a qualified withdrawal. It's also tax-free growth (not that the average <18 y/o would incur any tax on $250-$1250 of principle) | |
| ▲ | piker 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes. You know, like the kind of 401k a seven year old has. |
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| ▲ | stetrain 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Enough for one college textbook. | |
| ▲ | qntmfred 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | one of my kids is a senior in high school. they'd be quite content to have an extra $600 in their pocket. also... > beginning next year, the U.S. Treasury will contribute $1,000 to the Invest America account of every baby born on or after January 1, 2025 hopefully more people/organizations will decide to contribute as well. | | | |
| ▲ | newsclues 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | For a single kid, maybe. But what if 10 or twenty of them want to start a company? Maybe they have some savings or can get parents to chip in or a grant, but they can’t open a store and work it, or start a landscaping business or a software company. | |
| ▲ | aksss 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If that’s all that’s ever added, but keep in mind the idea is to provide the foundation for making easy, low-drag contributions going forward. | |
| ▲ | xqcgrek2 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If there was a wealth tax on every billionaire, it could be a factor of 100 or 1000 higher. | |
| ▲ | throwforfeds 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean you could buy books your first semester of your $75k/year freshman year of college though! Think of all the new Calculus that'll be in the 23rd edition of the standard textbook that costs $150. /s |
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| ▲ | sc68cal 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would much rather tax the wealthy, so that we could create a society where we don't have children who need a "financial head start" I read a book nearly a decade ago, that I think is worth highlighting. > The book's central thesis is that members of the global elite are using philanthropic institutions to preserve a system that concentrates wealth and power at the top at the expense of societal progress. Giridharadas examines the narrow limits of modern philanthropy, claiming that rich donors avoid contributing to causes which could undermine their own lofty status. He argues that in some cases, the political lobbying efforts of wealthy donors may reduce the government's ability to address inequality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winners_Take_All:_The_Elite_Ch... |
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| ▲ | vondur 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The top 10% of the earners in the US are paying 72% of the taxes collected. I'd assume most of the posters here from the US fall into that category. ($178k/year AGI). Are you willing to pony up more of your income for taxes? | |
| ▲ | jimbokun 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Is there data showing that government programs are more effective than philanthropic programs? | | |
| ▲ | magicalist 5 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Is there data showing that government programs are more effective than philanthropic programs? define "more effective" | | |
| ▲ | jimbokun a minute ago | parent [-] | | I'm replying to a claim that, if we "tax the wealthy" then "children won't need a head start." I want evidence supporting that claim, that government taxes are better for giving "children a head start" compare to philanthropy. |
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| ▲ | tossandthrow 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes philanthropy is ugly. Had a conversation with a us friend who works with philanthropy. That person agreed that philanthropy is ugly, but let me know that it is better than nothing while the US has its current ways. | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You could simply fix that. In what world does a billionaire pay for a countries' contribution to the United Nations, an institute they helped found and which has its main seat in that country... it's shameful, really. |
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| ▲ | skybrian 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is money flowing from rich people to (mostly) not-rich children. Although the mechanism is different, the money seems to flowing in the same direction you’re hoping for? | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The bigger problem is that there are much or more of these fat cats that abuse their wealth than use it for good. | | |
| ▲ | jimbokun 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | What does "abuse" mean in this context? | |
| ▲ | oulipo2 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | And even if that weren't the case, it's still not democratic to let people individually decide who gets what dollar. We build states so that we can direct their action through democratic means, using our votes. That's the best way | | |
| ▲ | jimbokun 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Not sure the abolition of private property is going to turn out the way you think it will. |
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| ▲ | jmward01 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Philanthropy at the personal level is good. People need to interact with their city and know their neighbors and their issues. Mega donations at the national level are really just end-runs around our democracy. We need to figure it out as a society, not have a rich person come in and say 'I have money and this is how I want society to work'. Even if I agree with you, I don't really want any individual to have that much power over that many people. We need to constantly find ways as a society of encouraging individual voices and reducing the power of money as a voice. | |
| ▲ | clueless 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | exactly, based on this: There is a political benefit for Trump and fellow Republicans. The accounts will become available in the midst of a midterm election, providing money to millions of voters — and a campaign talking point to GOP candidates — at a critical time politically. The $1,000 deposits are slated to end just after the 2028 presidential election.
They are obviously trying to buy the vote, so they can keep benefiting from the various tax breaks this admin is giving the wealthy... | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | You mean like last time. Cue Rayiner saying he didn't technically buy any votes. | |
| ▲ | fourseventy 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Every politician does this... Biden was trying to do it via cancelling student loans. |
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| ▲ | IncreasePosts 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | High income individuals already pay a majority of personal taxes in America. And American governments get about $10T(or $29k per citizen) to play with each year between federal, state, and local. Exactly how much money is needed to create this society you're imagining? America has more than enough money (IMHO), we just suffer from cost issues, and if you just throw more money at a situation where you have cost issues, you are just burning the money. | | |
| ▲ | potato3732842 a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] | | We suffer from cost issues because the lack of social mobility has created a petite-bourgeoisie class or professional managerial class that's at least out of touch if not stupid (i.e. not where they are through merit). Then these geniuses hear that giving addicts good needles reduces AIDs, baselessly (or worse, with motivated reasoning) concludes it's linear, cranks it to 11 and you get the CA homelessness spending vs results situation. Or you get the war on drugs. Or you get local government zoning code meddling. And at every step of the way evil people come out of the woodwork to make bank off the whole racket. Pre-revolution France is probably good comparison. | |
| ▲ | thomasfromcdnjs 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | To piggy back on this, as a thought experiment, if you took all the wealth of every American billionaire combined you would pay for the US government for about a year. | |
| ▲ | zwnow 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | We suffer from billionaires hoarding money and companies creating an unfair market. Tell me what's the need for billionaires? Even having 100m is enough to feed a few generations of your family, isn't that enough? |
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| ▲ | fourseventy 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So even when billionaires do give away their money it's still not good enough for you? The anti-rich sentient has somehow reached such a fever pitch that when a billionaire donates $6B to children the top post on HN is bitching about it. | | |
| ▲ | harmmonica 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I think you hit the nail on the head with your "good enough" phrasing. It might actually not be good enough. It begs all sorts of questions about the state of things in the US that an extremely wealthy individual has the means to do this and at the same time that something like this doesn't already exist for the recipients via some other mechanism such as the entity that's responsible for a citizen's well being playing some role. It is good, though. I think most folks who complain about it, though, wish it were better (better does not mean Dell spends even more of his own money on this, not directly anyway). | |
| ▲ | jmward01 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Donations are never free. And mentioning children, freedom or safety with any donation instantly makes me question it even more. |
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| ▲ | inglor_cz 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This could teach a lot of kids at least some financial literacy, which is valuable in any situation or tax regime. Personally, I would have loved to have some money on such an investment account as a kid, and I would nerd out on its development, discuss it with friends etc. Knowing that everyone around me has the same account would also make it less taboo to discuss money in general. | |
| ▲ | yieldcrv 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | the non profit space relies on Congressional deadlock I know several people that vote for and donate to campaigns for senators on the other side of the aisle just to help ensure gridlock the next layer after that is that tax education is so poor that the population doesnt even know what laws they want to change so its not worth talking about as that ensures another 100 years of “tax the rich” turning into “tax the income of wage workers making over $500k” by the time a bill makes it out of committee (I don’t find that controversial, just different enough to be interesting) | | |
| ▲ | LargeWu 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The number of people who would do that has got to be less than a rounding error. | | |
| ▲ | yieldcrv a minute ago | parent [-] | | what's more important to me isn't the single person vote itself, the campaign and cause contributions would be influential and the behavior is different than what people think those with money and some power in their domain are doing, how they're navigating and choosing candidates |
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| ▲ | dboreham 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can tell this is happening from the fact that all elections seem to end up being a 49/51 result. There's some strange Nash Equilibrium thing going on. | | |
| ▲ | wat10000 10 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That doesn't require anything nefarious. The parties can and do change their platforms and candidates to adapt to the electorate. If a party starts finding a way to win more votes, the other party will adjust to win them back. It's like how prices at different gas stations tend to be within a few percent of each other. It's not conspiracy, just competition. |
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| ▲ | lvl155 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They rather give kids $6.25B going straight to SPX than build schools. At some point, the billionaires
realized it’s best to keep Americans uneducated. They then turn around and hire all the immigrants and complain why there are so many of them in this country. People realize this is precursor to them removing social security for this generation of kids? |
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| ▲ | dbacar 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think the better idea would be to give $10k to 620k children who might be much more in need. |
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| ▲ | talkingtab 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Let them eat cake. |
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| ▲ | daft_pink 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’m not sure how much good $250 will do for a child. I think this essentially explains why taxing billionaires is not very useful, because the total amount of their life generated wealth assets amounts to a small amount for 25 million people let alone larger populations. Even if you took all the $’s away, the government really needs to tax high numbers of lower income people for the income to be meaningful. |
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| ▲ | woodruffw 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If I was a billionaire, I would avoid the phrase "collective action" in my press statements. (It's clearly hard to hate giving money to kids; that seems good. What seems bad is relying on the largesse of the extremely wealthy.) |
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| ▲ | sciencesama 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| for a moment i thought that was Annabelle trailer !! |
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| ▲ | harmmonica 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If only there was some sensible way for 25M children to be given a financial head start that wasn't Michael Dell directly funding it. See his total net worth and the YTD increase:
https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/michael-s-de.... Google/ChatGPT his 2019 (pre-covid) net worth (I'll save you the trouble): $27B. It doesn't matter if it's super accurate because we all know the multiple is probably pretty accurate given what's transpired. And before you go calling me a wealth hater, I just wish the US wasn't such a wealth lover. Just a bit less emphasis on people getting rich and a bit more emphasis on getting our shit together so that the government can fund savings accounts for kids and while they're at it teach them some basic understanding of investment/budgeting. |
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| ▲ | twoodfin 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The government is now funding savings accounts for kids, with the financial education benefits a prime motivator. Dell’s contribution is explicitly piggybacking on the new federal accounts. | |
| ▲ | tjwebbnorfolk 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why is private philanthropy not sensible in this case? Should all philanthropy be socialized and centralized and administered by the federal government? | | |
| ▲ | harmmonica 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | No, it should not all be socialized and centralized. Think things are running smoothly in the US at the moment? I wish it were the case that Michael Dell would have to consider whether the deployment of that kind of capital is a layup for him or if it requires some major sacrifice on his part. And, yes, it's better that he does it than not, but I won't pat him on the back too hard given the math. |
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| ▲ | pavlov 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "Why don't the poor just have investment accounts" - Marie-Antoinette Dell Having $250 in an account does practically nothing for the child. But having $6.25B invested does generate fees for bankers chosen to manage this program. (Chosen by the president's Wall Street entourage, presumably?) |
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| ▲ | renegade-otter 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| So we are going to live in a world where the national well-being is dependent on the good whims of billionaires and their "pet" causes. Not in the geographic or interest vicinity of a feudal lord? Too bad, maybe you should work harder, fuck you. |
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| ▲ | vel0city 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How much are the investment bankers going to profit off these childhood investment accounts? They're making it seem like this is some big selfless thing, giving a bunch of kids a small amount of cash. I see it as a big payday for the large banks. |
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| ▲ | tjwebbnorfolk 5 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It's so interesting how many of the comments already are some variant of how ridiculous this is that a rich person voluntarily donated their own money. That that's somehow bad, and what we really need to do is to force all of them to donate via taxation. But you just got $6 billion and you already want more? This attitude exactly why so many people are against raising taxes, supposedly against their own self-interest. The idea that I can freely spend OTHER people's money is the most seductive thing in the world. |