| |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > And the employees most likely to quit will be ones with responsibilities that make it difficult to do the commute 5 days a week Or senior people who have a dozen offers waiting in their inbox that they've neglected responding to because they're reasonably happy where they are...until the prospect of commuting. | | |
| ▲ | tayo42 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's not how the job market is right now. There's like 5 companies in the world that can compete on compensation while allowing remote work with meta. | | |
| ▲ | subw00f 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would take a lower comp for remote work and a better work environment. They will never pay me the amount that would make me choose 2h in traffic everyday instead of having enough time to cook breakfast to my family, take my kids to school, have lunch with my wife, etc. | | |
| ▲ | rcbdev 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Every time I hear U.S. commute times, I keep thinking they must be grossly overstated. How is your infrastructure so inadequate for... living? | | |
| ▲ | jedberg 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | They're overstated. The median commute time in the USA is about 27 minutes each way. NYC is the highest at 33 min. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | almost_usual 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No point in quitting, reduce workload. If leadership needs to manage folks out make them do the work and collect a paycheck while it happens. | | |
| ▲ | Nextgrid 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah I don't get people who quit when RTO or unreasonable changes are made. Quitting makes it easy for them and means they stop paying you now. Letting them fire you means at worst you end up with the same outcome, at best you call their bluff and get paid a few months more (or forever). |
| |
| ▲ | parliament32 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | paxys 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There have never been "company hours" in tech. Until recently (before badge tracking became a thing) asking your manager what time you were expected to come in and leave would be met with blank stares. "We don't enforce set hours here, just get your work done". And conversely "I came to the office and worked 8 hours a day like you asked" is never going to be accepted as an excuse when you fail to meet your targets at the end of the quarter or miss a page in the middle of the night. Heck you can't even work on your own projects after hours or patent your own ideas because the knowledge in your head is company property. Simply put - they are hiring you for your skills and your output, not for warming a seat at an office for 8 hours a day. Tech companies have always treated employees like adults and expected adult behavior in return, and both sides have benefited greatly from this arrangement. Sadly it seems like the new crop of tech leadership seems adamant on making their companies more like a call center. | | |
| ▲ | parliament32 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | So you'd think right? Nobody would like anything better than to just get output without worrying about hours or location or anything like that. But if you were in a management position when WFH started, you would've seen velocity go through the floor and stay there. And to be fair, there are absolutely a limited set of employees who are perfectly capable of working remotely with no issues whatsoever. But for the majority.. the feedback we've gotten is there is too much temptation to just do the laundry or dishes or "my wife needs a hand with X", and output just continues to stay low. And while it would be great to separate employees into groups based on who can be trusted to WFH and who can't, it feels too discriminatory and would cause way too many headaches. So, as I'm sure you've seen in the news stories over the last few years, basically every large organization everywhere has enacted some sort of RTO mandate. I'm sure there are a few smaller startups kicking around who want to keep trying things the other way, but for the most part, the industry has spoken. We can keep complaining about it but short of another pandemic it's unlikely covid-style work is going to make a comeback IMO. | | |
| ▲ | Nextgrid 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > if you were in a management position when WFH started, you would've seen velocity go through the floor and stay there Comp has also gone through the floor thanks to inflation and stayed there. You get what you pay for I guess? | |
| ▲ | wiseowise 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > you would've seen velocity go through the floor and stay there Is this “velocity” in the room with us right now? | |
| ▲ | simoncion 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > But if you were in a management position when WFH started, you would've seen velocity go through the floor and stay there. I spoke with my manager about this. This wasn't true for our team, and it wasn't true for any other team in our (fairly sizable) division. I didn't give a shit about any other group, so I didn't ask. If your employees are spending their days fucking around instead of working when they're working from their home office, I'm here to tell you that when they were in the corporate-leased office, they were browsing Reddit on their phone or off on yet another coffee break to "get the pulse of the office". Slackers and shirkers are gonna slack and shirk, no matter where they are. The thing to do is to fire folks who aren't doing enough to justify their pay. That's something that hasn't ever changed. |
|
| |
| ▲ | jfindper 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Or, just maybe I'm doing the daycare and social life and whatever in the spare time I have from no longer commuting (~2 hours extra a day for me). | |
| ▲ | rescbr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Looks like you don't know how to properly manage your team. I had a similar argument with a previous manager I had. Careerist dude started on some bullshit management-speak on measuring workers by ass-to-seat-hours while he had no idea I had a management degree from one of the most respected business colleges in my country. Had to rebuke him with Business Management 101. Of course, this definitely contributed for him pushing me out afterwards, as small minds can't handle being wrong, and he even had the gall of trying and pushing me an unethical assignment. I got out with a nice severance package, and from the grapevine (it's a small community down here after all!) I hear every quarter somebody quits from his team or moves to a different one. So yeah, bad managers got to career. | |
| ▲ | acuozzo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Where does GP say that this is done on company time? | |
| ▲ | carlm42 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's called a work-life balance. I know, crazy idea. | | |
| ▲ | parliament32 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | paxys 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The practice of an entire working population commuting from an hour+ away to a few buildings in the center of the city, sitting on their ass for 8 hours a day, eating a packed lunch, and commuting back home is at most a couple hundred years old. But sure, go on about your "hundreds-to-thousands of years of history". | |
| ▲ | jfindper 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Covid was fun, I get it, but that was a long time ago man. I don't understand what you gain from trying to be super abrasive on a forum. Is it fun? | | |
| ▲ | baiwl 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | The "I know, crazy idea." from the parent comment is even more abrasive. | | |
| ▲ | jfindper 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Calling out every abrasive comment would take more effort than I'm willing to expend, and would itself be pretty abrasive. So I picked the comment where they called Covid (the event where many people died, had their businesses ruined, etc.) "fun" over the one that mentioned work-life balance. | |
| ▲ | carlm42 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The person you're replying to asked if it was fun. Consider that my sarcasm was meant to be sort of tongue in cheek and not incredibly serious, which is a very different kind of tone from other comments in this chain. |
|
| |
| ▲ | roadside_picnic 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Throughout hundreds-to-thousands of years of history your options have been You might want to brush up on your anthropology a bit. | |
| ▲ | ribosometronome 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Throughout hundreds-to-thousands of years of history ... but that was a long time ago man. This seems like a self defeating argument. | |
| ▲ | carlm42 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Honestly, if the bus/delivery driver needed a mid-shift break to deal with some life stuff, yeah by all means, I personally think they should be able to do that kind of stuff (though maybe we start by giving them bathroom breaks?). The business hiring them should adapt. | |
| ▲ | lovich 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 99% of the working class doesn’t have the expectation of answering a page at 2 am, or working long hours without extra pay to make a deadline. Don’t act like that’s an apples to apples comparison | | |
| ▲ | paradox460 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Al, Wake up! It's 3AM and we need you to come in urgently! Why? What happened? We need to make sure we have shoes on the shelves! Bob had a nightmare there are no more shoes left! |
| |
| ▲ | tayo42 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | People did this, I used to do jiu-jitsu with a ups guy that would stop and join the class mid day, then go back on his route. I Had a manager that would go and drink beers in his car durring breaks. I had Coworkers that would leave the office to pick up their kids pre covid. Lots of people are messing around |
|
| |
| ▲ | 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | misiek08 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We are observing the most valuable people leaving, because they easily can get a job at place where they care more about value you get to company than the bonus you will get as C-level after firing highly paid workers. In the cases we know (I have a group of people working in different small and medium corps in Poland and Germany) - the people that are staying are either too lazy to change work or they are just not enough to get remote job. | | |
| ▲ | SV_BubbleTime 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ok, sweet deal if you are one of the most valuable employees in big tech. Sounds like a perk that many people would seek out. Are you? If yes, cool. If no, well, seems like you have rationalized that not everyone will get WFH regardless on your feelings about it |
| |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >You think this is the tech job market to leave your job, and then what? 1. take that time to startup that business you've been thinking of doing 2. Coast on the months of savings and years of stock until things get better. Perhaps you even have enough for a soft retirement. 3. try to rapidly interview and hope you have a ship to jump to before the hammer comes down. 4. interview anyway because you know this means a layoff round is coming even if you wanted to move because not enough people quit on their own. > is this IG looking to cut fat by keeping what they considered the most committed employees If by "committed" you mean "most compensated", then yes. >Is it because most of us can admit that it takes the right people to work remotely and that isn’t a majority? That’s more my take. Sure, maybe. But Meta knows that isn't the reason. They lost the BOTD since 2017 in my eyes. | | |
| ▲ | SV_BubbleTime 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | On number one, sure, take all the risk yourself. It pays off sometimes. And when it comes to hiring people you need to work as hard as you do, you can tell them they can work from home. | | |
| ▲ | satvikpendem 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I will, because it's cheaper for me and more productive for them to work from home. |
|
| |
| ▲ | op00to 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is the exact tech job market to start looking and have interviews/offers scheduled so you're not screwed when layoffs happen. | | |
| ▲ | SV_BubbleTime 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ok, fair, but roundabout reasoning. Your choice to leave makes it a certainty. A soft market mean uncertainty. |
|
|