> Somehow we were better at using remote tools while literally in the same office than some teams are at using them now while fully remote.

I couldn't agree more. I pushed to get the place I worked for to use Slack when it first launched, moving us off AIM (ha!). Our use of Slack when we shared an office in the twenty-teens was so much better than the use I've seen of Slack/competitors on fully-remote teams.

I wonder if it's because the failure mode was, as you said, to "drop by." Now the failure mode is... just failure.

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cogman10 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can't speak for everyone, but I'd say that I've noticed that younger devs simply do not chat.

My team rooms are pretty dead. I'll send stuff there but by and large the team simply doesn't use chat functions.

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denkmoon 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Perhaps the youngins are more cognisant that it's all monitored. Knowing your employer can read everything and it _will_ be used against you has a chilling effect and I'm pretty sure that's part of it.

	▲	MarcelOlsz 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		We had such incredibly heinous group chats on our Slack that if an admin perused through the logs we'd be instantly fired and the company shut down right then and there lol. The paranoia drove everyone nuts which made it more fun.

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taurath 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Partially thats about teams and how most corps use it, which is built primarily around information siloing and management visibility.

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lovich 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They, for every team I’ve ever managed, have an off company owned systems chat on shit like slack or discord where they are roasting the fuck out of you.

I’ve managed to be invited or told of them after ingratiating myself to the teams, or more often, after quitting and getting invited as one of the “good ones”

They all know that every word on company shit is being monitored

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sailfast an hour ago | parent [-]

Sure, but this ends up poisoning any sort of culture and creating all sorts of in-group nonsense which is almost impossible to undo.

It’d be like using Blind as your company chat - nobody goes on there to say how great their experience has been, and the tone infects everything else.

But maybe I’m just not very fun at parties…

This should be avoided at all costs by creating a culture that is receptive to people’s concerns and doesn’t do stupid things without explanation - but I get how difficult that is in reality and most orgs end up messing this up.

	▲	im3w1l an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Maybe I'm a bit unfair to you but to me your comment basically reads as wishing employees would be good little cogs in your machinery rather than people. Like making friends is natural human behavior. Forming friend groups is natural human behavior. It's not nice to disrupt this except that of course everyone has to be able to work together when needed.

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LtWorf 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It doesn't help that reporting people to HR is a way to career advancement.

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kasey_junk 6 hours ago | parent [-]

I’ve never worked _anywhere_ where reporting someone to HR was anything but negative impacting for your prospects at the company. And I’ve worked at lots of places in many dimensions (company size, industry, age, etc)

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MarcelOlsz 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This usually applies to Big Bank.

	▲	derrida 5 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The karmic cost / benefit is all worked out then.
	▲	XorNot 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		I worked at a big bank and it definitely did not.
	▲	lovich 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Is that a dynamic they have? I haven’t worked at Big Bank but I’ve worked in finance a few times and at those places and other industries I’ve worked in reporting anything to HR wouldn’t necessarily get direct consequences but you would permanently be on their radar and have to work to rule after that

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makingstuffs 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it’s more a shift in the culture amongst most people now than an argument of remote/in office.

Notification fatigue is a thing and people are just used to ignoring notifications and messages nowadays which ends up with slow responses and poor communication all around.

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QuercusMax 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's much easier to get a feel for how urgent things may be when you can yell down the hall.

I'm currently in feeling things out phase with my current team, and people seem really laid back about responding to messages - but it also seems like we're getting stuff done. Hard to figure.