| ▲ | emmelaich 15 hours ago |
| EVs are heavier but I suspect the wear is less than you might think because the braking is gentler with regenerative braking, so less wear on the tyres. Also, there's quite a bit of pollution from break pads and discs, also reduced because of regenerative braking. I couldn't find numbers though, with a brief bit of googling. |
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| ▲ | mattmaroon 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I’m not sure it’s gentler or in any way different from a tire’s perspective than braking. If I pull my foot off the one pedal driving, the deceleration I get is fairly comparable to about 3/4 braking in an ICE. (Off the top of my head estimate for illustration purposes only.) But the tires are made of different materials and are different in other ways too. I can tell you first hand you spend far more on tires if you own an EV. Our model y spends more on tires than our giant diesel pickup, and far more than an ICE of similar size. As for the relative amount of microplastics they emit, I really couldn’t know. You definitely wear your brake pads out far less with an EV. Just eyeing it though, volumetrically, brake pad wear has to be relatively insignificant compared to tire wear. I’d guess EVs still emit substantially more tire particles, and fewer from brakes but nowhere close to compensating. But I’d not be shocked to death if someone studies it and you turn out to be right. And on the plus side, those are probably issues materials science could solve (make the tires out of something benign) whereas EVs emit a lot less of other bad things that I’m sure are not easy to solve or they already would have been. |
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| ▲ | hansvm 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Your hypothesis then, roughly, is that braking causes more pollution when it's more extreme (since the total braking work being done is at least as great -- in practice much greater because of the increased mass), so smoother braking will reduce tire wear. I'm inclined to believe an extreme version of that hypothesis -- I doubt 200k miles at 1mph would wear the tread substantially -- but in practice I don't think that's the case. Electric cars tend to replace tires around 10k miles sooner, so the net effect of everything involved (heavier cars, regenerative braking, rich young guys driving faster, mostly city driving, ...) is 15-50% more tire wear per mile. |
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| ▲ | whartung 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Pretty sure most wear comes from the back tires (I should say the "power tires" to consider FWD vehicles). Many electric vehicles accelerate quite quickly, which just wears their tires even more. Braking is braking. If you're stopping in N meters, regardless of how the braking force is applied (regenerative brake vs discs), the tire is the artifact taking the load. Even then, most cars don't routinely brake as hard as they accelerate. Motorcycles, with their high performance, are notorious for eating rear tires much faster than front tires, and they can't be rotated. Then, there's my vehicle, full time 4WD (not AWD, there's a difference), it wears its tires quite evenly in contrast to 2WD/AWD vehicles. |
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| ▲ | nickff 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Braking is usually much quicker than accelerating, for almost all vehicles (because brakes can absorb much more energy than engines can output). For this reason, I suspect most particulates are caused by breaking. | |
| ▲ | _aavaa_ 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Even then, most cars I believe you mean most drivers. All of this talk about EV tires wearing faster than ICE tires is driven by people accelerating aggressively simply because they now can. | | |
| ▲ | zeusk 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s about the weight of the vehicle; aggressive driving just makes it even worse. EVs are generally quite heavier compared to similar class of ICE vehicles. | | | |
| ▲ | lmm 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Electric cars are mostly drive-by-wire, so if the same driver input results in accelerating faster in an EV then I'd say that's the car's responsibility. | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | That makes no sense. Every car on the road, regardless of power source, has what amounts to an infinitely adjustable pedal controlling acceleration. The relationship between pedal input and actual acceleration varies between cars, and can vary even on the same car in different drive modes. How fast you accelerate is 100% under your own control. | | |
| ▲ | lmm 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you put effort into controlling it, sure. Most people have other priorities, they push the pedal when they want to go and they leave it to the car to accelerate at a reasonable speed when they do. Mass-market cars should be built for the population that exists, and that means having a default accelerator-response that does sensible things for the way that normal people normally use the accelerator. | | |
| ▲ | Toutouxc 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Most people ... push the pedal when they want to go and they leave it to the car to accelerate at a reasonable speed when they do. I'm going to need a source for that. There are literally tens of thousands of accelerator pedal types, with different hinges, different travel, different stiffness and different engines with different ECUs and different drive modes attached to them. There's no one default way to step on the gas that people would just pull out of muscle memory. |
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| ▲ | Gibbon1 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have nothing to back this up other than I'd like to see a comparison between EV's and other luxo models for tire wear. Because the tire design matters a lot when it comes to wear. I'm a bit suspicious about the weight being the primary driver since I have a van that weighs 6000lbs and it doesn't burn through tires. I can see two things. One maybe EV tires are spec'd to be more sporty. Or possible tires aren't optimized for the extra weight. Pointed comment: No one but no one cares about higher weight trucks and suv's at all when it comes to tire wear. Only EV's get singled out. |
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| ▲ | sfblah 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My EV runs through tires way faster than my gas car. |
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| ▲ | rootusrootus 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | I, too, have a lead foot. EVs are quick, and tires are the price. | | |
| ▲ | zeusk 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | There’s quick ICE cars too, but they don’t weigh as much as the 100 or so kWh battery pack in EVs | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 15 hours ago | parent [-] | | Typical EVs are about 10-15% heavier than the comparable ICE. Yes it makes a difference, but only marginally. Normal drivers without a lead foot get 10s of thousands of miles from tires, just like ICE vehicles. Also, few EVs that are not pickups have 100 kWh batteries; more typically 60-75. | | |
| ▲ | zeusk 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | 2024 Mazda3 Sedan: 3,124 to 3,395 lbs 2024 Tesla Model3: 3,862 to 4,054 lbs That's 20% heavier, and it gets worse when you look at EVs not built from ground up by legacy manufacturers. | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | A mazda 3 is a sub-compact, and a Model 3 is a mid-size. At least compare it to a mazda 6, which is also a mid-size: 2024 Mazda6: 3,437 to 3,582 lbs | | |
| ▲ | zeusk 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | model3 is a mid-size sedan much like mazda3; even the marketing depts agree, but sure whatever makes you happy. 2024 Tesla Model S: 4,560 to 4,776 lbs | | |
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| ▲ | bearjaws 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd say it's slightly worse, mainly because when you first get the car you tend to launch it a few times and take advantage of all the power. My first set of tires only lasted 27k miles. After a year you drive normally, I get about 35k miles out of 40k mile rated tires, similar to my old Audi. |
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| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| My wife doesn't buy that argument. To her, when I have regen braking on, we slow down a lot more than we would otherwise with the brakes. It could just be the way I'm driving though. |